Political expediency and Barack Obama

      The past few weeks have born witness to much turmoil in the race for the White House. After Senator Barack claimed the presidential nomination through his adroit unveiling of superdelegates in his corner, many on Capital Hill and elsewhere were jubilant. In their eyes, a new era of politics had begun, ushered in by the success of Barack Obama's historical candidacy. The span of a month, however, was enough to shatter these feeble illusions of a post-triangulating campaign. During his campaign against Senator Clinton in the primaries, Senator Obama used the Iraq war vote as a major wedge issue, portraying Senator CLinton as a politician of the past, a veritable master of triangulation. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2007/05/obama_slams_cli.html) The truth of the matter is, Senator CLinton's vote to give President Bush the authority to engage Iraq would not have made a difference either way. A large majority of the senate, including many Democrats, voted to give authority to President Bush. Senator Clinton voted for the war due in part as a desire to be politically expedient. At time, as many of you may recall, there was no great anti-war movement back then (quite the contrary, in fact). It is interesting to note, however, that Senator Clinton's vote for the Iraq war may have in fact somewhat negated the national security argument in a potential GE with John McCain.
     Despite this, Senator Obama did the politically correct thing by voting for FISA. His vote for the capitulation was merely a means by which to negate the argument that he is somehow weak on national security. While I do not agree with the Democratic Congress' capitulation to President Bush, I do think that Obama's yea vote was necessary. However, what is unacceptable  is for the candidate who claims to be the one who transcends politics as usual to bash a fellow Democrat for political expediency in the primary and then turn on his supporters once he needs them no more. This is simply double speak and circumlocution by a gifted politician, no more, no less. To claim otherwise is to deny reality. Now I am no republican troll, having been an active supporter of Hillary clinton in the primaries. To vote for John McCain would be voting for four years of "Czechoslovakia" references and incompetence. However, Barack Obama must eventually learn to run as what he is first and foremost: just another politician.



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Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

Learn? Let's see he did some schooling during the primary. And IMO he's running  a solid campaign now.  So educate me what does he need to learn?


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:43:11 PM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

If he continues to use a double standard, he may well follow the path of John Kerry: branded as a flip flopper and as weak on national security despite the FISA vote.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:45:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

Yeah that's just terrible what he did.  Making people's voting records an issue.  How dare he.

?


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

You know as well as I do that Clinton voted for the war for exactly the same reason that Obama voted for FISA. TO me there is a double standard running rampant here....


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

They're both bad votes and they should both be held accountable to them.  I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

Your suggestion that Obama adopt "just another politician" as a slogan is ridiculous.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

No sane person would suggest that. I am merely saying that to many of Hillary Clinton's lyal supporters, hypocrisy is not a laughing matter.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:06:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 4)

A vote for war is different than a vote for telecom immunity is different than a defense appropriations vote is different than voting for a "gas tax holiday."  

Hypocrisy isn't the issue here.  If you think being wrong on the most important vote of the last two decades is important, then you probably weren't very likely to support Clinton.  I don't think FISA is in the same galaxy, but if you could show me a candidate who opposed them BOTH (don't say Kucinich) then I'd be backing them.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

The FISA issue is/was a hugely important one, and I don't think that downplaying it's importance in order to excuse your candidate's vote is appropriate. As a matter of fact, it does come across as hypocrisy.
Do you think it's okay that Obama came down on the wrong side of FISA? Where is the vaunted wisdom here?
I supported Clinton, but I never once excused the fact that she was wrong on her Iraq vote. I was willing to hold my choice accountable for her votes- why aren't you willing to do the same for Obama?
Do we only hold politicians accountable if we don't like them?
"Fear not the path of truth, for the lack of people walking on it" Bobby Kennedy
by Narrowback gal on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:31:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

Look up.

hey're both bad votes and they should both be held accountable to them.

Stop being stupid.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 04:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good point. (2.00 / 3)

but im afraid many here will not view your intentions that way.\

but ill rec anyway.

)oh and you might want to think about the return key to separate your paragraphs)


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:46:54 PM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 4)

I wouldn't call something as huge as the war a "wedge issue", and Hillary Clinton's support of it made her suspect to the anti-war segment of the party, which was fairly large, and as the election of 2008 has borne out, highly organized.  Barack Obama didn't have to remind anyone that she had voted for it.

Howard Dean's candidacy in 2004, you'll recall, was almost entirely based on his opposition to the war.  It was a powerful issue then, and even moreso this time around.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:51:02 PM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

I efer to it as a wedge issue only because Obama used Clinton's support of the war as THE campaign's main case against her judgement. I may be biased, for I agree with Senator CLinton's vote at the time, but Senator Obama did use the war vote deftly against HRC but had he been in the senate at that time, i think he may have voted right along with Senator Clinton for the war. just my opinion, mind you.........


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 10:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

Why did you agree with the vote at that time?  Everyone outside of the Capitol could see that Bush had no interest in the UN inspections and wanted them out of the way as quickly as possible so that he could go to war.  

Also, I don't view a vote for war and a vote for FISA as morally equivalent.  Maybe the votes were motivated from the same impulse, but they are not qualitatively the same.


by rfahey22 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

Because i assumed that congress would have a backbone and be able to give Bush authority without letting him abuse it. Bviously i was wrong, but Reid and Pelosi capitulate to Bush every chance they get. Now Obamais taking a leaf from their book.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:08:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

Once they voted to authorize the war, they've already weighed in on it - that's it.  After that it's the President's decision.

Congress has never defunded a war in the history of the United States.  Short of that there's nothing they can do.  Congress even funded the Vietnam war when it was well-known that it was being illegally diverted to Cambodia.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

That's probably why Clinton appealed to you more than she did the people who were against the war at the time, which is a large portion of the Democratic primary voters.

For people who came to oppose it later, he used it as an example of judgement - "see, I was right before everyone else was."


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

To me, simply saying you were against the war is no indication of any credibility. Even now, Obama never speaks of how he voted against the Iraq war, only how he will continue to vote for Bush's Iraq supplementals.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

Yeah let him not vote for bills that give more funds to the troops.  You think they question his patriotism now?  He would be a walking a dead man.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

Okay, that's your opinion.  And since you agree with Clinton's vote in the first place it makes perfect sense then of course it doesn't give him credibility.

But we're refighting the primary.  Maybe I don't understand your argument but I don't think you're making sense - being wrong on one issue means that you cannot be claim the high ground on any other issue or else you're a hypocrite and "just another politician".  Is that about it?

I don't agree.  Obama opposed the war.  This was good.  Clinton voted to authorize it.  This was bad.  This influenced the way a lot of people voted.  Many years later, Obama voted for a wiretapping law that both of us disagree with.  This is bad.

What's the connection?


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sigh (2.00 / 1)

are we still whining about Clinton, FISA, and Obama?

Four months can't come soon enough!


by hocuspocus on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:08:45 PM EST

Re: sigh (none / 0)

If expressing an opinion is considered whining now, then I guess yes I am. I just did not realize that I could not speak on topics that may evoke some controversy.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 3)

I wish some of these people would read his book. Obama has always been pragmatic and just left of center.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:11:01 PM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 4)

Can we at least agree that these diaries have to end after he's inaugurated the second time?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:15:15 PM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

A little overconfident there........


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Didn't get the memo? (1.00 / 2)

The primary season is over, McTroll PUMA.


by Beren on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:22:21 PM EST

Re: Didn't get the memo? (2.00 / 1)

As if. Why can't I just voice an opinion without being called a troll/PUMA? please just answer that.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 11:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Didn't get the memo? (1.00 / 2)

"Why can't I just voice an opinion without being called a troll/PUMA? please just answer that."

Because it's a fucking idiotic question whose only purpose can be to attack the nominee of the Democratic Party.

I've posted a dozen responses as to why the FISA vote does not equal the Iraq vote in scope or betrayel and fools like you just keep coming along doing McSame's dirty work in the same way.

If you weren't a McTroll/PUMA you'd be questioning McBush's bullshit record and proposals instead of nitpicking Obama.

So go ahead and ask your self serving, or GOP serving, question and I'll keep calling you out on it.


by Beren on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 12:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're wrong. I would point out how (none / 0)

many ways you are wrong, and which points I disagree with... BUT THE FUCKING CAMPAIGN IS OVER.


by Dumbo on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:03:18 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

So am I right that you also consider Hillary Clinton to be just another politician?  Would seem to follow.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:18:43 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

Tol be honest, yes. I thought that she was the one who, because of her knowledge of the intricacies and subtleties of the political system, could actually GET THINGS DONE!! To me, Obama promises many things, like to vote against FISA, but has not followed through on many of them.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 09:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (none / 0)

Wake me in November.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 11:28:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

THE PRIMARY IS OVER.

Geez.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:34:15 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (1.00 / 1)

Sorry, but Hillary Clinton is no longer in this race. Her campaign is over. She has endorsed Senator Obama for President.

Comparisons of her positions and statements to Obama's are meaningless at this juncture, and amount to little more than shit-stirring and scab-picking.

But, of course, you know that.


"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it." -- Dr. Horrible
by BobzCat on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:34:44 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (1.00 / 2)

OK kid, I'll give you a 'remedial democratic politics' lesson.

Neither candidate has enough delegates.  Therefore, they both need votes from superdelegates to get the nod.

The superdelegates vote at the convention.

The convention hasn't happened yet.

Now, you're excused.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 08:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And the Winner is..... (none / 0)

Ok this one goes to Rankles on the pure facts. The rules state the Primaries are not actually over until the acceptance speech at the convention. The same holds true for John Boy.

However, given that all the other candidates have conceded and/or suspended and endorsed one candidate for each party. In the minds of the candidates, their respective parties, most voters the primaries are over.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:01:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And the Winner is..... (none / 0)

'suspended' being the operative word here...


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And the Winner is..... (none / 0)

'suspended' being the operative word here...

Ah, but you also need to look at that word in light of the rules. Had Hillary dropped out and not suspended she would be unable to fund raise to pay down the campaign debt.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And the Winner is..... (1.00 / 2)

:)

So therefore you have nothing to worry about.

Seeya at the convention.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 07:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 1)


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:25:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (2.00 / 1)

Rankles, if there is anyone on this blog who demonstrates childishness and immaturity on a semi-daily basis, it's you. From your spamming, your sockpuppeting, your cries for attention, and your childish attacks on other users, you regularly sound like someone who's emotional and social development stalled at some point in the distant past. But feel free to continue to characterize others as "kids" if it helps you.

Here's what experienced political observers understand: when a candidate has suspended a campaign and endorsed the opponent, that campaign is effectively over.

I'll put it this way: when you fail your final exam after neglecting to hand in your final paper, you've failed the class. Technically, of course, you haven't failed until the grades are officially submitted. Sure, the professor could at the last minute change her mind and let you retake the exam and hand in your paper late. But the odds of that happening are going to be pretty much zero. You have to face it: you've failed.

Get it?


"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it." -- Dr. Horrible
by BobzCat on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 01:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OMG it's politics (2.00 / 2)

Politician lie.  They triangulate.  They attack. They campaign on sound bites.  The best of them shift through the political waters like a shark.  They do what they need to do to win elections.  

Rossevelt was a politician.  All the Kennedys were politicians.  And Carter.  And Gore.  And both Clintons.  They say and do what they need to do to get elected or the lot of them would not have risen above county clerk.

"No more politics as usual" is a SLOGAN, no different from "A Chicken in Every Pot."  It means whatever a voter wants it to mean to them. It's not a sacred vow.

It amazes me that the same folks who slam Obama supporters for hero worship turn right around and hold him to a hero's standards.  OMG, he moved to the center only to get votes?   He seems to do exactly what he blasts his opponents for?   How dare he.  That's like critiquing a hockey player for high sticking.  Even if it isn't pretty, it's part of the damn game.

My single biggest reason for supporting Obama now?  HE BEAT HILLARY CLINTON.  He knows how to win.  HE IS A GREAT POLITICIAN which means he is our best chance for a Democratic Administration.

oh yes.  And he doesn't have his head totally up his ass like John McCain.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 05:11:58 AM EST

Re: OMG it's politics (none / 0)

So winning is suddenly more important than actually having a pragmatic and effective president........ I don't follow that line of drivel.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 09:18:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OMG it's politics (2.00 / 1)

I think the point is that you can have both.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 09:36:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OMG it's politics (2.00 / 1)

Last night I watched the really bad film entitled The Fan, starring De Niro and Wesley Snipes.  De Niro is a crazed and frightening fan who is willing to do anything for the baseball player snipes whom he idolizes (Snipes' character, of course, knows nothing of what's going on in his name).  More and more the PUMAs look like De Niro's character, to me.  They seem to be willing to do anything in her name, to distort and conflate in every way, to suffer the worst forms of cognitive dissonance due to their cult-like adoration, to indulge the worst double standards, all the while failing to realize they're actually harming her rather than helping her.


by Philoguy on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (1.00 / 1)

let's all get our panties un-bunched ~

let's not feed the concern trolls, m'kay?


by pholkhero on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 07:54:04 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

thank you for proving my point about the troll-accusing nature of many Obama supporters.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 09:19:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It was always going to be a win for you? (none / 0)

Why did you do this diary, if not to whine?

If we argue with you, you dismiss us, or just say "no, that is wrong."

If we try to ignore you, or ridicule you, which, IMHO, since this is diary #632 with this same spin it richly deserves, you scream "we prove your point" that Obama supporters just accuse you folks of being a concern troll (which, you kinda are?)

ANYTHING WE SAY will prove your point, because, you're just convinced of it anyway.

None of this can be surprising to you.

Really, I am really asking you, WHAT did you think you would get from this?


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 12:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

There wasn't a great anti-war movement at the time?  Perhaps you missed the largest demonstrations, both in America and abroad, in human history.  This, of course, wouldn't be a surprise as they weren't very well publicized in the media despite their size.  At any rate, Clinton's war vote and her lack of subsequent apology were a deal breaker for me.  I couldn't risk supporting a candidate who might capitulate to the passionate emotions of the electorate were another similar situation to emerge.  I was looking for a leader that would be capable of making difficult and unpopular decisions (wise foreign affair decisions when people are calling for blood) not someone looking to re-election fights in 2012.


by Philoguy on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:21:39 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27:01 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

Barack Obama must eventually learn to run as what he is first and foremost: just another politician.

Yes, that'd be a brilliant campaign strategery.

Forget "Change You Can Believe In", he should change his slogan to "Just Another Politician".

/snark


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27:42 AM EST

Re: Political expediency and Barack Obama (none / 0)

However, what is unacceptable is for the candidate who claims to be the one who transcends politics as usual to bash a fellow Democrat for political expediency

You know why these complaints irk me? The double standard.

It's unacceptable for Barack Obama, out of all politicians, to attack a an opponent. It was cool for his opponent to jump all down HIS ass about barely tangential associations, to frame some of the memes that still damage him, to dismiss his wins as a feat any AA would achieve, to claim all he had was "a speech", but god forbid he show any signs of actually wanting to win.

This post is basically "damn that Obama for not being a proper punching bag".


by Neef on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 12:12:17 PM EST


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